Thanks for being a Hymnary.org user. You are one of more than 10 million people from 200-plus countries around the world who have benefitted from the Hymnary website in 2024! If you feel moved to support our work today with a gift of any amount and a word of encouragement, we would be grateful.

You can donate online at our secure giving site.

Or, if you'd like to make a gift by check, please make it out to CCEL and mail it to:
Christian Classics Ethereal Library, 3201 Burton Street SE, Grand Rapids, MI 49546
And may the promise of Advent be yours this day and always.

Click here to donate to Hymnary.org I have already donated. Please don't show this to me again

Herzlich tut mich verlangen

You are here

Home » Forums » Hymnary User Room
Haruo's picture
Fri, 06/25/2010 - 20:11 — Haruo

I'm sure the linking of this tune to this text occurred before 1913 (as one reads here), but I don't know yet which year; 1613 (a year after Hassler's death) seems plausible, but it's a guess. Wikipedia suggests that "Mein gmuth ist mir verwirret" was the original (secular) text for the tune.


Comments

Mon, 06/28/2010 - 09:27 — dianneshapiro

What the Psalter Hymnal Handbook is saying is that the tune was linked to Gerhardt's text in 1656 when they were published together, however, it wasn't called "HERZLICH TUT MICH VERLANGEN" until 1913 when it was linked to Christopher Knoll's text by the same name. It looks like before 1913, most hymnals called the tune "PASSION CHORALE".

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 11:33 — Haruo

The actual statement from the Psalter Hymnal Handbook (as quoted in Hymnary.org) is "The tune's first association with a sacred text was its attachment in 1913 to Christoph Knoll's funeral text "Herzlich tut mich verlangen" (hence the tune name)." Yet Gerhardt's text is no less sacred by any standard I can imagine than Knoll's. Unless HERZLICH TUT MICH VERLANGEN was published with the Knoll text prior to 1656, it seems to me the tune name, if one's going by the "first sacred use" rule, ought to be O HAUPT VOLL BLUT UND WUNDEN, yet (at least in anglophone hymnals) that's almost never given as the tune name, though frequently mentioned as the original first line.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 09:10 — cfenner

I think we need some clarity about the issue you are trying to resolve. If your question is when the Passion Chorale tune became associated with "Herzlich tut mich verlangen," the answer seems abundantly clear. If you're wondering about the statement in the PHH and why the tune isn't called "O Haupt voll blut und wunden" in hymnals, that's a question for Bert Polman and for hymnal editors the world over, but Gerhardt's text is certainly sacred and I don't think anyone would disagree with you there. If you are proposing that the default name for this tune on the hymnary.org should be "O Haupt voll blut und wunden," then that is something that we could discuss here in the forum, but you need to make a clearer proposal in that direction.

CF

Tue, 01/25/2011 - 21:17 — cfenner

OK, I see what you mean about the tune's first association with a sacred text. The date given (1913) was an error and needed to be corrected. Julian's Dictionary states that Hassler's tune was first published with a secular text, "Mein G'müth ist mir verwirret" in his Lustgarten (1601). In 1613, it was published with Knoll's "Herzlich" text (not 1913). Then in 1656 it was paired with Gerhardt's hymn. I corrected the authority entry to reflect this.

Another matter we should discuss is why a search for the tune "O HAUPT VOLL BLUT" returns no results and how we can fix this so at the very least it redirects to PASSION CHORALE.

Wed, 01/26/2011 - 08:48 — dianneshapiro

The reason a search for the tune "O HAUPT VOLL BLUT" returns no results is that a tune by that name hasn't been entered into Hymnary. The text shows up in some of the German hymnals. The only one we have page images attached to right now is "Deutsches Gesangbuch" published in 1859, which suggests that it be sung to "Herzlich thut mich verlangen" (http://www.hymnary.org/hymn/DGLZ1859/page/163). Do you know a hymnal that has the tune "O HAUPT VOLL BLUT"?

Sat, 01/29/2011 - 15:51 — cfenner

No, not aware of any instances like this. I guess if a seeker uses a general search they will find the authority description page for this tune, or if people look for "O sacred head" as a text they will find the tune in the tune listings in its alternate names.

Also, I noticed that a text first line search for "O sacred head, sore wounded" brings up J.W. Alexander's text, which was originally "O sacred head, now wounded" and is sometimes altered, but it doesn't bring up all the instances of "O sacred head, sore wounded" that are actually by Robert Bridges. There are a couple instances listed under his author record that don't turn up in a text first line search; it makes me wonder if there might be other instances credited to Alexander that are really Bridges or a combination of both, as is sometimes the case.

Sat, 01/29/2011 - 16:00 — Haruo

Sometimes a hymnal editor creates an amalgam of Bridges and Alexander. And I think I've run into one or two other English translations, but can't recall them at the moment (probably in hymnals not yet in the Hymnary).

Haruo

My Little Hymnblog
North America's leading Esperanto hymn writer and hymnologist
Webmaster, Fremont Baptist Church, Seattle

Sat, 01/29/2011 - 16:34 — hutcheson

Two translations by Catherine Winkworth in CCEL:

Ah wounded Head! Must Thou..., in Lyra Germanica volume 1
Ah wounded Head, that bearest..., in Chorale Book for England

and one by John Kelly:

Oh! bleeding head, and wounded, in Paul Gerhardt's Spiritual Songs

Also in CCEL, Hewitt comments on translations of this (and other) Gerhardt hymns.

Forums: 
Hymnary User Room
It looks like you are using an ad-blocker. Ad revenue helps keep us running. Please consider white-listing Hymnary.org or getting Hymnary Pro to eliminate ads entirely and help support Hymnary.org.